Another Overheating Hijet, Changed Head Gasket/ Timing Question

Hello there,
I am new to this Forum, i bought a Hijet aka Piaggio Porter 2 Month ago.
I have the S85 1.3l 16 Valve Fuel Version with 48kW.

I bought this Van with a Overheating Problem. I thought that it would be a much easier job to fix that, here is what i did so far:
- Got 3 Stats, cooked them and took the one wich opend the most in the shortest time,
- Replaced Both Caps with new ones
- Fittet a new Temp. Sensor (that one sitting in the Bottom Metal Pipe, controlling the Relais),
 because the one in there was a totally wrong one, as you see on the Pictures, The left one was too Big to fit so Somebody adapted but then only Part of it Had contact with water
- Flushed everything many times
- Used a watering can to get the water in there with more pressure,
- Vakuum to suck Air out
- Checked for Leaks



But still overheating (its much better now but i want this thing to be really working, and i want to travel around with this Van so it should keep cool even in hard conditions).
I kicked the Van on a super hot day for like 20 Min, then stopped an let it stay in idle then it pushed water in the coolant tank, an it does not suck the water back in so there i have water inside the System.

Now i took the Cylinder Head off, currently i am waiting i got it skimmed and serviced.
That should fix my Problem i think.

My Question is:
In my case there are 34 Teeth between the timing Marks, but the Manual says that there should be 35 Teeth between the Marks, i am really afraid to change the Timing and kill the engine ...

What do you guys think how the casket look?


Did i cleaned the surfaces properly? I used a non abrasive sponge thing, there are still spots where the old gaskets are visible but it feels super flat and clean.





Cheers
Maxim

Anyone?

Head gasket looks like it has failed.

I always fitted belt according to marks on the pulleys.

So far your job looks very good indeed!

Should the head bolts be replaced or can they be reused, know sone headbolts can and sone cant (looking at the 993 headbolts just in case they are different to the 1.3).

I've always re-used them. Not sure on the official stance.
I don't think they are stretch bolts because the tightening sequence is simple.
Stretch bolts tend to have a multi step tightening sequence.

Thanks HJ, your advice is always welcome on here. Keep coming back

Thanks for your Help i really appreciate that!

I reused The head Bolts. The Manual doesnt say that The Bolts should be replaced and Mine where only 0.12mm longer than they should (The Long ones) so i think thats fine.
Yes i fitted The belt as shown in The picture/ Like it was before. Today i reassembled the engine, adjusted the valve cleance and everything. Motor started Like Charm but after 2-3 Seconds a there was a big White Cloud coming Out of The exhaust i nearly started crying.

I checked all surfaces where i fitted News gaskets (replaced Them all). Was totally dry. But next to The oil Filter coolant started dropping and i checked The oil wich was super Clean before and now it is really "muddy" right so super Clear that coolant gets somewhere It should Not.

My ideas are:
A) coolant got Into The oil when i Took The head Off (i dont think that would cause such a big Cloud, but i will Change The oil tomorrow to make Sure this is Not The reason, and The dripping is Strange)
B) i fitted a wrong head gasket in there. I bought from a German seller who Claim to have much experience and i even called Just to make Sure The gasket is The right one, now i checked The Pictures i Took today and saw that The new gasket has wrong holes on The Side. And The new gasket Looks different from The Pictures of The seller and different to Others i saw online but i am Not Sure If this causing these troubles ..

Sorry for The bad Pictures .. i really Hope i can fix this little Van i am working on It since almost 3 weeks, did all The welding, brakes etc. Only The engine left ..


Best regs,
Maxim

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Oh no! Hope it’s something simple, photos are great, just keep them coming, helps to show what you are doing and easier than trying to explain things.

Hey there thanks for your reply.
Today i Had to leave The workshop its From a friend and tomorrow he needs The Space again.. today i Took The head Off again, now i have to Work on The street but anyways if The little Van works Afterwards i am fine with that.

The gasket Looks def. different. I Made a picture From both next to each other. But i dont now if this small difference can cause such a muddy oil and letting so much coolant into The oil. Maybe The reason for The failture and muddy oil/ White exhaust is that i did not changed The oil after replacing The headgasket? Because when i removed The head coolant got into The
oil Channels but i dont know if it was that much,

Now i Planned to put a new gasket wich has The extact Same holes as The original one in there, tommorow i will buy one but i really dont want to Take The head Off again, so before i would really Like to Unserstand why the coolant came into The oil, because with The old gasket the oil was super clear and i only let a shop skimm The head and changed The gasket. Do you have any ideas?



Many thanks to everybody
Cheers
Maxim

I always find they are smokey for the first few minutes after running from a rebuild.

And lots of water drops down the holes in the block into the sump when taking the head off.

But if the smoke doesn't clear up after a few minutes then something is wrong.

After you drive them a bit, the water evaporated out of the oil as it gets too hot for the water.

I always used this type of gasket kit with the red sealant line on it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333109584386

I'm just going to throw out there that mine put out revolting white smoke for 5 minutes after being reassembled (and ran rough as some part of the emission control got knocked out of place...) but cleared after that.

Your gasket is interesting! I had three plus my old one and they all had the bigger holes. I wonder if the smaller holes are aiming to give a more even water circulation?

Hey there,
Tomorrow i will recive the new headgasket, its one from elring,

Okay if you guys have that white smoke too when reassembling the engine after headgasket change, then i think i just overreacted by instantly taking the head off again, i just had the engine running for like 20 secs. because i was afraid of killing it.

But anyways i didnt want to drive with that different/ strange head gasket i had in there. Like the biggest difference is that the slot holes are on the opposite side but I dont think that this was the reason for white smoke;

@HighlyJetted the Gaskets with the Red sealant line are the ones from "Ajusa", they are 1.4mm to me they "look" the best but my local parts store has only the elring gasket but i will fit that one in, because on Friday i will go to greece and i will have to finish my car before

I think the gasket I have is just a mistake, because the picture from the vendor shown a "normal" Hiijet gasket with all the holes my old and the other replacement gaskets have;

So tomorrow after fitting the new gasket in I will change oil and then just run the engine for a while?


Thank you so much!

Hello there,
Today i fittet a New "elring" head gasket in my little Van. After reassembly i let The oil Out, Put in one liter spinned The engine by Hand a few Times, Took The oil Out and then filled fresh oil in there, changed The Filter and started.
Again i White smoke appeared (Just dont undertand why because i replaced The oil, so there should Not be that much coolant in there?) Anyways after 7 min the White exhaust was complely gone .. so i really Hope now The Van is running. Tommorrow i will do some small Testing Rides i got myself a odb2 bluetooth device maybe i will Be able to read Out some Data. The idle seems a little too high, as The Manual says 850rpm, but maybe The odb2 thing will Show that. If he Passes i will visit my grandmother on friday (150km one way). Now The oil is a little muddy again but i only ran The engine 30 mins maybe It Takes longer to get The Water Out there. If Not i will Just Change The oil again,






Cheers
And thanks again!

So far so good, now before you go driving it too far make sure you burp all the air out of the coolant system, and heat cycle it a fair few times to make sure the coolant level stays consistent! Then take it for a short but hard drive and see if the coolant levels stay good after it cools back down.

The idle is controlled by the idle air control valve, which is opened and closed because it has water running though it. Make sure the water is passing though it and getting hot.

Another cause of high idle is a vacuum leak on the inlet manifold e.g. injector seals, gaskets vacuum pipes etc. If you spray them with brake cleaner solvent etc while it is running, if the idle changes then you have a leak there

Opps wrong thread

So today i connected my odb Thing to watch all The Sensor Output while running The engine. I Ran The engine 5 Times until The Front Fan kicked in then waited another 2 min. Afterwards i massaged all The hoses to geht Air Out and waited for cooldown then topped cooland under The Seat. After 3 cycles The Level still dropped a little and i started to worry that still coolant is escaping. But i think The Water only getting sucked Back If you really let It Cool down? So i Heat cycled and will Check The Level tomorrow morning then i will do a Test Drive as suggested.

The idle is still Higher than The Manual says, i used almost a half can Brake cleaner to Spray every Part of The intake and vakuum but The rpm did Not Change at all.
The two rubber Pipes going into The throttle Body are getting hot. But still idle is high. I checked The throttle Sensor but everything seem fine ..
If The coolant system works The Pipe under The Driver Seat is complely full? So No Air Gap at all?

Thanks!
Maxim

There is also a throttle idle adjuster screw on top of the thottle body down a hole. It has allen key head. And a rubber bung cap covering it.

Hi und hallo! Good to have you here.

Yes. No air gaps. Air coming from other air locks might turn up there after refilling the whole system. Ocasionanally check when engine is absolutely cold ie. in the morning and top it up there if needed.


By the way. Just saw all of this. Awesome double Gasket job. Repitition is good for learning. Think positive. Elring is a good brand also

I had the elring gasket. I think the white seal looks pretty smart. I asked the parts supplier who had 3 brands, which was best and they replied, they all have the same warranty.

It looks like you've done a nice job. It's more thorough than mine. Very nice and clean.

If you take the cap off the coolant pipe under the seat and you hear a little hiss of air, remember that maybe it's air getting sucked back. The system could have been full until you took the cap off! This used to happen to me if the engine isn't stone cold. Now I know the symptom of a little air in the coolant, I don't check very often anymore.


What software are you using for your OBD device?

I am super Happy that i get so much Support Here, i think otherwise i would get stuck and dissapointed of this project. Ist seems Like i will never Finish this van. This cooling system is Killing me. Yesterday i left The Van hot to Check coolant Level this morning. It was complely full to The top, then i adjusted The RPM with that screw i was able to Turn it by hand down to 1250rpm idle speed (1600-1700 before), still too fast but much better than before.
I noticed that If i Push The Van to 4000rpm it pushes Bubbles into The coolant Tank. I Just dont know how to Go on now. But i should mention that i only replaced one Rad Cap.
I have a pressure Testing Pump Thing Here. Should i try that one to See If The pressure staying in The system?
And one Thing i noticed: The two Water Tubes which are connected to The throttle Body taking much longer to Heat Up than The Rest of The Rubber tubes ..

Yes i noticed that If The Water is still a little warm and you Open The Cap that It sucks a little Air Back Inside. But that He pushes Air into The Tank doesnt seem right to me, The Tube wich connects The Tank gets hot too, so there must be movement of coolant Inside.
I Just downloaded all odb Apps i was able to find but "Car Scanner" seems to Work The best. It has a blue Icon and its free. I Connect via WiFi with The Adapter Bluetooth didnt worked for me.

Yes, The Second head gasket replacement was quite fast, but still i want to Drive this little Guy one day .. and right now im Not Sure how to Go on ..

Cheers
Und LG
Maxim

You really need to make sure 'both' rad caps are in good condition 'and' make sure the metal face it seals to is in good condition other wise you are wasting your time. Its a key point to getting it running right along with getting all the air out.

Okay, i bought another new Cap, Yesterday i checked The sealing surfaces and cleaned Them a little but they Seem fine. I think The Bubbles appeared because i still Had Air in The system. Now The Water tubes which are heating The wax of The throttle Body are getting hot and he reducing The Idle rpm. I even adjusted too much on that screw, when He was warm The engine Stopped because of The Low RPM. Now i have Set The idle to 850rpm.

Yesterday i let The Van idle for 45 min in The sun then i die a 20 min Test Drive and Stopped in The sun Afterwards. The max temp was 96* is this already too much?
I marked how high The Water is in The Tank and it did Not spit more water in there. Seems Like a good sign to me.

Today i will continue Testing after fitted The new Cap and i will Check The Water Levels again.

By The way:
I took Pictures of Almost every step when i took The head of do you think it would be useful to write a "Tutorial" for that? For other Users?

A tutorial on taking the head off and replacing it would be a great resource for others to follow, you seem to have done a good job so far. Create a new post in the Workshop section though, then it keeps it nice and clear.

I agree, you seem to have an eye for detail. It's many years since I did any head gaskets so this would be essential reading prior to doing one on a Hijet, especiall as you did it in-situ.

It takes a fair few heat cycles and runs to get the very last of the air out, just small bubbles come out, sometimes a bit of froth/foam. The heater matrix is an air trap.

What you are looking for is stability. Draw a pencil line on the coolant bottle when the engine is cool at the water line. You are looking for it to keep returning to the same line when cool. Once you are getting stability never take either of the caps off, and never ever take the front cap under the grill off!!

The water temp sensor is on the end of the cylinder head, you will measure sometimes 105 degrees when you drive it hard! But the system operates under pressure so the coolant does not boil.

Some of the golden rules of Hijet coolant systems :-
1) never take the front radiator cap off otherwise you lose the water out of the heater matrix
2) never take the heaters off hot (don't slide the lever to cold) as it closes the loop and reduces flow though the thermostat housing. Just close the vents instead.

Hey there,
i am back from my vaccation;
My Notebook just died, have to do some SMD soldering to use that thing again, so right now i have no access to the pictures. But when i revive that thing i will write a "tutorial" on how i changed the gasket;

I think that i was close to the point to have all air out there, but today again it failed:

I took my Van home, its a 20 min drive. Everything worked great, alot stop and go, but anyways its quite cold outside today.
When i arrived home i let the van idle for 2 min to take a look at the engine.
Then another nightmare happened it made pffffft and something popped and coolant came out.
I found the Heater Air Bleed Nipple on the ground.
I have the heater on max. always as HighlyJetted said.



Would be super easy to fix that thing so it is not able to escape. But i dont want a "dirty" fix like that.
So now i ask myself:

-Is it possible that thing is just worn out and popped because of that (maybe because of the High Pressure before Gasket change)
-There is too much pressure in the System (no clue why after HG change) and that nipple is not able to hold that much

I already think about to move that Van to a workshop, but i dont really have the money to pay them
Close to my hometown is a workshop which is specialised on Hijets (if anybody needs parts in Germany ask me, they have everything)

Thanks again!

The cap should be held onto the union with a clip. If you've lost the original sprung clip, or it has gone weak, replace it with a jubilee clip.

Seriously?
That would be The Most easiest fix so far. But it makes Sense everything ist secured beside that Cap ..

Yes, seriously. Look at the cap - you can see the indentations made by the clip, a smaller version of those on the other 2 hoses.

That rubber cap would pop off due to pressure after 5 minutes of the engine running without the metal hose clip!