All good.....now not starting

Hi All

Was literally just getting round to reporting back to you on the apparent success replacing the pressure cap and curing the overheating issue (the old one's pressure release valve had disintegrated).

It's got an MOT and has been on loads of journeys far and near with good success (and fun).

Now it won't start. Just went out after never having a problem before and a click is all I get. I assume starter motor but there's no 'hijet quirk' that could point to something else. It was just after a rain shower and I had been sanding it down ready for paint but given the location of the engine I'd be surprised if this would have a bearing!

Bump started it and drove it round the estate I work on....but no sign of 'turning' the starter motor off it's flat spot. Is the general consensus a starter motor?

If so how hard is it to change and does anyone have one or want to quote me to do it as I am so busy at the moment.

Help!

Have you tried jump starting it? It may be the battery.

No I do need to try this but the battery has never let me down even when stood all through winter with no use.
However, the plot has thickened a little in that I went out tonight to bump it and head home but got no dash lights (warning lamps). Then they came back after a while of trying to get them to engage indicating a loose connection. Interior light is working when door opens and is normal brightness. As are the dash lights.

I still think it's the starter motor as it has been 'stiff' ever since I had it but even started after a momentary pause but could this also cause a loss of power, is there some shared relay or something? In my experience if it's a lose connection, you may have no power but when you do have it everything works normally. Vice Versa with the starter motor, seems an unlikely coincidence for them both to develop faults at the same time.
Something in the ignition switch perhaps?

I've seen HJ on here talking about the thin wires going to the positive battery terminal, they tend to corrode and break apparently.

If the wires break they don't even click.

Hmm, can't recreate the problem now. Started 6 times in different places without problem.
Normally I'd think it was a flat spot on the starter but the lack of power at times is befuddeling.
Could a 'click' be caused by reduced power to the starter. I'm thinking if a wire if frayed somehwere and is only just sending enoguh power through thus creating an inconsistant power supply?
The only cause, besides wearing out' I can pin point is all the dust created by the sanding followed by a rain shower. All doors and windows were closed though. If it was my car I wouldn't worry and just wait til it broke properly but because it is mainly the wife's, I don't want to risk her being stranded.

The only other odd thing was that the interior light would go out if the door was open for a while and not operate when the lights weren't coming on. Could some crazy Italian wiring system mean the ignition or starter be linked to the timer on the interior light...is there evene a timer?
That would explain the lack of power then refocus things solely on the starter motor.

Classic sign of the starter motor on it way out Steve. Or to be more correct the solenoid. Inside the solenoid. there is a round disc which when pushed forward make contact with the two terminals inside -- one the feed from the battery, the other the feed to the motor . With the tremendous amperage the starter takes on initial startup the contacts burn and don't make a good clean contact or circuit.

Your starter will go on for a while playing up but in my experience will eventually give up. Could be days, may be weeks . But be prepared for it stopping altogether Steve.

I don't suppose anyone has installed an aftermarket immobiliser to it at any point have they? Mine had one fitted when I bought it but it didn't work so I ignored it but then the car started doing exactly that; started sometimes but other times just clicked. Usually I had to wait around 5/10 minutes and then it would just start. Just something else for you to consider before you go ordering another starter motor

Check the connector on the starter motor is tight
I had the same problem,untill trying to start one night and saw a shower of sparks from underneath.
the nut had come loose.snapped the copper stud
trying to tighten.ended up drilling and tapping the
stud 4mil and bolting up again,that was last summer,
still working good luck

I had a problem with a 993 where the starter would occasionally not turn - this got worse and worse until it rarely turned. Stripped it down and found one brush was stuck in it's channel. Freed it off and (touch wood) it's been fine ever since.

Yep most starters can be stripped and tinkered with to give good service again.

But you can guarantee, if you don't sort them they will let you down when you could do with it the least!!!!!!

had same problem last year, would start ok first thing in morning then sometimes during day it would just click, leave it a couple of minutes then it would start as if everything was fine, did this for a few months then it wouldnt start even with a jump pack so put new battery on and it hasnt done it since!! did notice there is a voltage drop from battery to starter so maybe if the battery is on its way out or lights have been used a lot the voltage drop is enough to cause this and a new battery may cure it like it did with mine

Plenty of scenarios there for you Steve. As Matt says
it will always let you down when you least need it.

But let's face it, whenever it happens its never convenient. Hadn't thought about sticking brush (PFM) though but usually when that happens its because the brush is worn down and gets stuck in the slide.
Just make sure you have got the mother-in- law in the back so she can give you a push start.  

Great help everyone. Can you even source a new starter motor or will a used one suffice? Problme being you don't know how worn the new - used one is I guess.
I'm gonna check the contacts first as that seems the most consistant theory for both the problems.
It cetainly seems about right though, as always the starter motor has almost stalled before firing...almost like hydraulic lock symptoms but always started with issue after the inital pause no recraking required.

woody wrote:Plenty of scenarios there for you Steve. As Matt says
it will always let you down when you least need it.

But let's face it, whenever it happens its never convenient.

So, that would be almost to the minute of 5pm in the city centre outside the biggest Asda in Wolverhampton and the Wolves Ground, in the rain.

"I stalled it" She said

"You ****ing idiot" Said I.

Turns out wiggling the live wire from the battery creates a big spark and it works as it should. The small puddle in the back was a giveaway and a hint that we may have been lucky. I have a leaky seal it seems, explains why the problem occurred both time in the rain.

Still surprised that the starter motor would click when there is at least some power to the front as HJ mentioned early on, I may still have a dual problem to include the starter but at least I have something to go on. So...am I looking for a post about how to fix it or I do I need to put my auto electrician hat on (read, panic and hire an auto-electrician - assuming HJ won't come down from Stoke and sort my shit out.

Will post a pic as there is an ominous chop box attached to the live which I wonder about! Someone stealing a direct feed from the live terminal like a twunt!?