New E10 petrol compatible with Hijet?

Is my 2005 Daihatsu Hijet Pickup, recently fitted with a replacement 1998 petrol engine, compatible with the new e10 petrol?  (The government website checker doesn't list the Hijet).  My vehicle also uses LPG.  I spent a lot of money just prior to covid on my hijet including the 1998 replacement engine. Runs a treat and am praying it run with new fuel?

I'm pretty much in the same boat as they say as I have a 1998 1.0i Hijet, but I read they are not getting rid of the E5 fuel right away.
Most garages will stock it and they are getting rid of the high octane unleaded.....

I also have a 1.3 Hijet with LPG. (2003). I believe that E10 is not compatible, so a move to Super Unleaded is the way to go. No doubt we shall have to make changes somewhere along the way, but if you remember the doom and gloom about the unleaded introductions and burnt valves etc, the answers will soon become clear.

A demountable Romahome camper permanently sits on my Hijet pickup.  Two years ago with retirement approaching, I invested in a replacement engine and gearbox to roam beautiful rural locations. This was just before covid, so I have hardly used the campervan since and now learn about the new incompatible fuel!

I’ve read expensive E5 will be stocked at high-volume outlets meaning smaller garages won’t! I don’t want to be touring beautiful remote places under the constant worry of finding E5 fuel!  I’ve heard nothing about additives!

I’m thinking options?  Were Daihatsu Hijets/Piaggio Porters imported more recently with compatible E10 engines?
When and who will give a definitive answer regarding our current older vehicle fuel compatibility?
Appreciate any updates.  Very frustrating and badly planned fuel switch, especially for the less well off.

Just seen an article relating to the new Piaggio Porter 2011 Range (link below). It talks about its improved eco engine, which would seem to suggest older engines weren't compatible with new rulings. Still would like to hear official confirmation and can't understand why not!  2011 Piaggio Porters don't appear to have been imported and a 2020 UK dealer only seems to have left hand drive!

Article reads: "..and the brand new petrol MultiTech, which will also power the Bi-fuel Eco-Power (petrol+LPG) and Green-Power (petrol+methane) variants. These two engines deliver outstanding efficiency and performance in a compact package and in complete respect for the environment". Link: https://www.truckanddriver.co.uk/latest-stories/the-new-piaggio-porter-range-2/

Switched to the new E5 Super Unleaded and gosh it's more expensive! With a chance my 2004 Hijet/Porter could yet be compatible with cheaper E10 I've tried Daihatsu HQ Japan, Piaggio HQ (even writing in Italian) and their new UK importer, I even joined a classic car forum in Australia hoping to find an owner - all to no avail. With thousands of these older vehicles still motoring on the continent with E10 long introduced (especially Italy), the answer must be known! So, as a last pitch attempt - does anyone know an owner abroad who could advise?

I went into Asda last Saturday. No E5 at all on the forecourt. E10 or diesel.

..does anyone know an owner abroad who could advise?

Any Irish owners' can contact their MEP to get an answer as E10 was an EU directive.

I see no reason why a 1.3i hijet should have any problems on E10
The tank is metal, most of the fuel pipework is metal, the injectors would be fine on it too.

What could let it down is the Nitrile rubber O rings on the fuel pressure regulator, the injectors to rail, and the few in the fuel pump assembly.

But if any of them start leaking due to breaking down the nitrile rubber, it wouldn't cost much to swap the O rings to Viton. Probably spend £15 on O rings and half a days labour whatever that's worth.

Saying this, it is claimed that Nitrile rubber O rings are not suitable for even 5% ethanol, but everyone has been using that for a while and there has been no major problems.

Great to get your in-depth technical know how HighlyJetted.

I've just reached retirement and my aim is to spend the whole of next summer motoring big miles across Europe with a Romahome mounted on my pickup. Replacing failing or worn parts here in the UK is not an inconvenience, but I'm just concerned about problems arising if abroad! Should I replace parts ahead, or am I being over cautious about E10?  Grateful for your thoughts. Chris  P.S Will you be filling up now with E10 rather than the more expensive and to become scarcer E5 Super unleaded?

Firstly, I don't know my ar*e from my elbow, nor have I had a Hijet for quite along time now. I have a 2008 Toyota 3.5 petrol v6 doing 21mpg, so I'll put what ever is cheapest on the pump and face the consequences later

Think its mostly a storm in a tea cup, vehicle manufactures have been using Nitrile rubber for along time now, and is the sealing material of choice. There are plenty of cars on the "E10 compatible" list that use Nitrile rubbers.

Nitrile doesn't just instantly dissolve in ethanol, it sort of swells up and goes softer over a period of time. In most applications where O rings are used, there is no space for the swell up to go (e.g. they are confined) so is unlikely to cause instant problems. It's not like your filling a plastic tank with Acetone!

As for the air/fuel ratio thing, these vehicle have a lambda sensor so they will self tune enough to avoid major problems with the target stoichiometric combustion. Most of them are not exactly running perfectly to tune anyway so a bit of non perfect fuel isn't going to make much of a difference. They can go +/- 15% on the fuel volume correction trims called LTFS and STFT (long term and short term fuel trims).

Its a bit like the old leaded fuel thing but less of problem, yes the lead was there to save the cast iron valve seats, but you would have to hammer it for a long time to achieve the valve seat recession that was scare mongered at the time. I see valve seat recession even today and its on modern cars with modern cylinder heads so make of that what you will. LPG cars are notorious for valve seat recession, including Hijets, I've done countless burnt out valve jobs on them, always LPG ones.

Also think about Brazil and other south American countries, they have been running on E25 since the mid 2000's. They ain't all running new swanky cars over there

Surprised this isn't a hot topic.

Around my way, only one of the garages still carry e5. It's all e10, diesel, or super. A couple are only e10 or diesel. This has come around quick, one of the garages I normally used was unexpectedly closed the other evening, and the next day every pump said e10. No e5 or super.

I think I may have already filled up with e10 in one of the garages in my 2007 Porter, by accident. It's still running, but I'm not definite it was e10, but it was only a few days ago, and when I checked the pumps today, all said e10 only. Until someone can definitely say they have been regularly running on e10, I'll fill up with super, but like I say, they are pulling that already in the smaller garages nearby.

Also, will it affect petrol generators? I guess no, as they often run on an oil/petrol mix anyways, but I have to try that soon. hope my generator doesn't blow up....

I would run the generator dry before putting it away or you may find it difficult to start the next time

hi,
I haven't used the generator for a while, and it was dry, so had to fill up anyway. Solar gives me lots of power most of the year, usually have the generator for winter use.

I put in a litre of E10 with the motorcycle oil mix, and hoped for the best. Otherwise, it's just a paperweight if E10 didn't work, so just did it. Bit worried, as effectively it is a 2 stroke moped engine, that aren't generally compatible with E10.

Worked fine. No weird noises or smoke (that sometimes happens if you get the oil mix wrong). Ran smooth, no issues.

I did fill my Porter with E10 the other day. So as I understand, it's not an immediate thing, it's a longterm issue, if it's going to go south. Everything fine for now. Maybe the 1.3 2007 engine is OK - it's CAT4, but passes CAT6 performance on emissions, as it was built above spec back then.

Still will fill with Super for a while, until maybe some Italian users can confirm, who would have had long term E10 use by now, if things like seals get affected.

https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/09/02/626528-uk-s-department-for-transport-uses-boogeyman-allusions-to-sidetrack.html?fbclid=IwAR1sGm08Bn1zMuwFjSnwk7IJ3SlZS6lOFnukHZpusr9Nog0LPmt9kf3wZP4. Pretty much as Highly Jetted was saying.

Very interesting article Roddy. The fact that many thousands of older Hijets/Porters are running in Europe, especially Italy, means the E10 compatibility issue is known.  Yet Piaggio won't reply or give me a definitive E10 answer - very suspicious.

Even though I think everyone is on the same page with this now, I'm still going to stick my oar in.

The guy who owns the petrol station here says the whole thing is blown out of proportion and the fuel will run fine in any engine designed for unleaded.

He also says that if you are going to leave the vehicle unused for some time to drain the tank as the new blend doesn't have the same lifespan as E5. It also may pull more moisture out of the atmosphere than E5 does when left for extended periods which in turn contributes to fuel tank corrosion. The daily driver is unlikely to notice this as a problem.

Well, that "fuel crisis" we just had blew all these E10 worries out of the window.

gogopiaggio wrote:The guy who owns the petrol station here says the whole thing is blown out of proportion and the fuel will run fine in any engine designed for unleaded.

That's true, and really wasn't in doubt although performance will be very slightly down. The question is, will the additional ethanol gradually dissolve seals etc in the fuel system.

Have recently found out a small independant local chain of filling stations has U/l withthe ethanol removed totally - E0 at £140.9 last time I filled up.
(That is not a cue for Old MacDonald jokes....)

Which makes me think what ethanol level were we using in normal unleaded when we filled up before we started looking at the E notification? Did we have E5 before normally?

E10 can absorb 0.5% water apparently. But that's not the problem!

You can mix ethanol and water... bottle of Vodka is basically 60% water, 40% alcohol... doesn't separate - well you pray it would when you are stuck to the spinning bathroom floor heaving your intestines out at 3am!!

Ethanol and Petrol mix, and stay in dilution fine.

With 100% petrol, if you get water in the tank, the water sinks to the bottom and the two cannot mix. We've all got a bit of water in our fuel tanks here and there. The pickup pipe is a couple of inches off the bottom so it's not really a problem

But with E10 or E5, if water gets mixed into it, it mixes with the ethanol, and then it makes the petrol separate from the water/ethanol solution.... this is what they call phase separation I think.

At that point you have 10% of watery ethanol in the bottom of the tank, and the petrol floating on top. And as you fill up again the ethanol gets sucked out the fresh fuel into the watery ethanol below.

The E5 is what was termed super unleaded before wasn’t it? Why was there no uproar before then and only now it’s E10?

E5 was your normal unleaded, not the super. Yes it was 5% ethanol. And exactly... no uproar

News / Social Media / Viral Media / Engagement Calculated Content is messing with how society works. Because people engage with the content, it is then promoted, then more people engage with it.... then your Granny is worrying about something that has no factual basis. In the mean time, boring import things are not in the spot light. Every one has cars, everyone needs petrol, thus its an engaging story... thus caused the shortage of Super/Premium Ethanol free fuel that normally not many people buy (stations only have a small tank for super), which I think started the petrol panic buying shortage.

On the flip side - I did swap a set of 4 petrol injectors last week in a 2009 1.8 Civic, the little plastic gauze filters have broken down/dissolved, clogging the injectors. I suspect the plastic is not ethanol compatible. Took them out, removed debris, cleaned out, reassembled without stupid plastic gauze, runs mint again... I made a video so you can see....

So let me get this straight, my van has been running on ethanol at 5% for as long as I can remember and no one warned me! But now we have increased it 10% they are all telling me I will kill the van!

 Bingo!

storm in a tea cup

..... so now you know, you really need to buy a new van, for the new dangerous fuel, so your old one won't blow up.
But it has to be a BRAND new van that's E10 safe... with all that lovely VAT on the price Spend your taxed income on taxed goods.
Got to keep the British car manufactures going

Nah, will keep my little van thank you very much

Currently Esso Supreme 99+ is the only petrol currently sold from forecourts that's ethanol free (in certain areas), the regs state they have to put E5 on the pumps but are under no obligation to include ethanol in Super Unleaded. I drive a 70 mile commute 90% motorway in a MK5 Golf GTI which is allegedly fine with E10. Previously ran it on V-Power. I've tried back to back with E10 (Shell), E5 (Shell V-Power) and the Esso Supreme and found I lost 3mpg with the E10 vs E5, it didn't feel anywhere near as responsive to me either. V-Power vs Esso Supreme I was up 2mpg with the Esso and the car felt noticably smoother. Have spoken to others with Golf GTIs who've reported similar. Whether or not it'd make that much of a difference with a 1.0/1.3 Daihatsu I can't say, but it'll be interesting to see how well lawnmowers start after being put away with full tanks of E10 next spring!

From the Esso site (won't let me post links):

Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules whose job it is to reduce the friction in your engine helping the moving parts work more efficiently.*

Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.

There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.

Local Fuels is a regional fuel supplier in the SE with E0 on the pumps. I've been using it for a while, seems fine and less likely to cause pinking than E10. They also sell red diesel too.

Think ethanol might be more resistant to detonation than petrol. But I'm not big into all that stuff.