Engine to chassis ground strap
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Engine to chassis ground strap
Hi all
Going slightly mad here with starting problems (2001 1.3efi MPV). Might be a rogue battery or dodgy starter but as I've had ongoing battery draining problems I wanted to check the ground straps.
Now the battery one is obviously easy enough to find and in good health but I am stumped trying to find the engine to frame one. Can anyone help me to track the location of the damned thing?
Going slightly mad here with starting problems (2001 1.3efi MPV). Might be a rogue battery or dodgy starter but as I've had ongoing battery draining problems I wanted to check the ground straps.
Now the battery one is obviously easy enough to find and in good health but I am stumped trying to find the engine to frame one. Can anyone help me to track the location of the damned thing?
sputnik- Centurion
- Posts : 122
Join date : 2014-11-13
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
I'm not sure anymore if I remember this correctly (believe it or not, I tend to get confused between my Hijet and my L300), but isn't that "strap" tied to the gearbox?
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
Thanks Lex
I thought it might go from the gearbox but can't spot it. Not sure if I should be looking from the rear engine inspection hatch or from underneath though. I'd also assumed it might be a braided metal lead, but maybe I'm not even looking for the right thing - aaargh!
I thought it might go from the gearbox but can't spot it. Not sure if I should be looking from the rear engine inspection hatch or from underneath though. I'd also assumed it might be a braided metal lead, but maybe I'm not even looking for the right thing - aaargh!
sputnik- Centurion
- Posts : 122
Join date : 2014-11-13
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
IIRC if you look forward from behind the N/S/F wheel you should see it - it is quite a thin metal wire. I've found them to be broken in the past with no noticeable difference.
Have you checked the small cable(s) after they exit the battery box? Very prone to corrosion and breaking.
Have you checked the small cable(s) after they exit the battery box? Very prone to corrosion and breaking.
PFM- Jet Addict
- Posts : 1885
Join date : 2010-04-24
Age : 63
Location : East Sussex
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
Have had a wee wiggle with the two wires that attach to the battery positive that go through the hole and into a white plastic connector. They seem to feel ok but could be damaged inside. My cables after that connector towards the front of the van are all encased in plastic cable run/tubing sort of stuff. Not sure if that is standard or not?
sputnik- Centurion
- Posts : 122
Join date : 2014-11-13
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
It’s where they connect to the terminal usually but mine has gone twice, once at the terminal and the second time half way along the wire, looked fine from outside but when split open was all corroded.
Raggy- Jet Addict
- Posts : 1629
Join date : 2015-05-25
Age : 60
Location : Doncaster
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
Is the two wire plus terminal available as a replaceable unit or do you need to fashion a repair.
Although given this comes off the positive I see how it might cause starter problems but would that also affect the battery losing charge, especially when cold? (Of course maybe the battery hasn't been losing charge at all, it's just been a starter issue that is getting worse)
Really appreciate all your replies so far.
Although given this comes off the positive I see how it might cause starter problems but would that also affect the battery losing charge, especially when cold? (Of course maybe the battery hasn't been losing charge at all, it's just been a starter issue that is getting worse)
Really appreciate all your replies so far.
sputnik- Centurion
- Posts : 122
Join date : 2014-11-13
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
I am afraid you need to fashion a repair, it’s a simple one to do, only two wires. Describe the symptoms exactly and we might be able to advise better otherwise just stabbing in the dark unfortunately.
Raggy- Jet Addict
- Posts : 1629
Join date : 2015-05-25
Age : 60
Location : Doncaster
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
The top of the gearbox is where you will find the earth wire right on the gearbox up to the mounting bracket on the chassis. The tiny little wire above the Camshaft Sensor would barely earth a lightbulb. I haven't got a clue what it is for. It certainly would melt immediately if the gearbox/engine earth strap wasn't attached.
As for your power drainage it could be the alternator as it is permanently connected to the battery and if the windings Shellac coating are getting tired it could be the problem or a diode.
The starter solenoid is the only other item I can think of that is permanently live. Everything else as far as I know is ignition switched. The trouble is that there are so many daft beggars out there that "play mechanic" and don't know what they are doing. Especially Garages.
As for your power drainage it could be the alternator as it is permanently connected to the battery and if the windings Shellac coating are getting tired it could be the problem or a diode.
The starter solenoid is the only other item I can think of that is permanently live. Everything else as far as I know is ignition switched. The trouble is that there are so many daft beggars out there that "play mechanic" and don't know what they are doing. Especially Garages.
Guest- Guest
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
Longish story.
When I got the van I noticed the battery was prone to getting a bit flat, especially when cold. Gradually getting worse. I assumed it was an aging battery on the way out.
Replaced the old one with a bigger new one which immediately seemed better, but before long it was displaying the same symptoms but was semi-manageable by sticking it on to charge from time to time until this autumn when it sat for a while (2 months) awaiting some parts for its mot.
By the way - Testing the battery with a multimeter seemed to suggest it gets up to a decent charge - 13.6, although perhaps the recent flattening may now have trashed a battery that was previously ok, but draining.
Come mot day, despite leaving it to charge overnight it was having none of it. Dash lights all came on but no turnover. Just a click. (Might have briefly given a machine gun click) Think the lights may have been a bit dim.
Managed to bump start and drove it for 30 mins at pace to get the mot done but they couldn't really start it, even off their big charger machine, unless it was given a while on boost. It would sometimes turn over slowly and unconvincingly. Every so often after a while on boost it would turn over faster and start. Passed mot though
When I got the van I noticed the battery was prone to getting a bit flat, especially when cold. Gradually getting worse. I assumed it was an aging battery on the way out.
Replaced the old one with a bigger new one which immediately seemed better, but before long it was displaying the same symptoms but was semi-manageable by sticking it on to charge from time to time until this autumn when it sat for a while (2 months) awaiting some parts for its mot.
By the way - Testing the battery with a multimeter seemed to suggest it gets up to a decent charge - 13.6, although perhaps the recent flattening may now have trashed a battery that was previously ok, but draining.
Come mot day, despite leaving it to charge overnight it was having none of it. Dash lights all came on but no turnover. Just a click. (Might have briefly given a machine gun click) Think the lights may have been a bit dim.
Managed to bump start and drove it for 30 mins at pace to get the mot done but they couldn't really start it, even off their big charger machine, unless it was given a while on boost. It would sometimes turn over slowly and unconvincingly. Every so often after a while on boost it would turn over faster and start. Passed mot though
sputnik- Centurion
- Posts : 122
Join date : 2014-11-13
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
Second half of posting....
Since then it won't start at all so my thoughts are:
1. Battery could be shagged, but that wouldn't explain the historic pattern of discharging over time.
2. Starter (or solenoid) could be sticky so even a well charged battery can't turn it, but again, if so why was the battery losing charge? Just taken both off to give them a basic bench test for good measure (assuming my battery isn't shagged!)
3. Dodgy earth somewhere. Would explain battery discharge, and can also cause all sorts of other faults, such as dead battery-like starting problems. (Oddly, the radio is also prone to intermittent bursts of static, could that be connected?). As such this seems a likely candidate.
4. The wires off the battery have been breaking down gradually and have finally gone. I'm not too sure what the symptoms here would be but would have thought that might explain non-starting but not the flat battery?
5. The battery has always been fine and what I'm experiencing is just displaying symptoms like a flat battery. (But I'm pretty sure I've checked the battery voltage and found it actually be low, prior to charging)
6. Alternatively, all the above are fine but the alternator could be failing, but if so a battery charged externally should be fine to get it started, regardless.
Out of interest, am I right in thinking that even if I can't find the existing (assuming it exists) ground cable I could just add a generic braided earth strap anywhere on the gearbox to the frame? i.e. it doesn't have to be anywhere specific so long as it attached to bare metal.
Since then it won't start at all so my thoughts are:
1. Battery could be shagged, but that wouldn't explain the historic pattern of discharging over time.
2. Starter (or solenoid) could be sticky so even a well charged battery can't turn it, but again, if so why was the battery losing charge? Just taken both off to give them a basic bench test for good measure (assuming my battery isn't shagged!)
3. Dodgy earth somewhere. Would explain battery discharge, and can also cause all sorts of other faults, such as dead battery-like starting problems. (Oddly, the radio is also prone to intermittent bursts of static, could that be connected?). As such this seems a likely candidate.
4. The wires off the battery have been breaking down gradually and have finally gone. I'm not too sure what the symptoms here would be but would have thought that might explain non-starting but not the flat battery?
5. The battery has always been fine and what I'm experiencing is just displaying symptoms like a flat battery. (But I'm pretty sure I've checked the battery voltage and found it actually be low, prior to charging)
6. Alternatively, all the above are fine but the alternator could be failing, but if so a battery charged externally should be fine to get it started, regardless.
Out of interest, am I right in thinking that even if I can't find the existing (assuming it exists) ground cable I could just add a generic braided earth strap anywhere on the gearbox to the frame? i.e. it doesn't have to be anywhere specific so long as it attached to bare metal.
sputnik- Centurion
- Posts : 122
Join date : 2014-11-13
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
Sorry folks... And finally
Edit to take account of Woodie's answer - I think the little thin wire is still there (wondered what that did!). I'll take a better look for the proper earth tomorrow in the daylight - is it a braided wire strap or something else?
And if you're looking for someone fiddling about without knowing what they are doing, I'm your man!
Edit to take account of Woodie's answer - I think the little thin wire is still there (wondered what that did!). I'll take a better look for the proper earth tomorrow in the daylight - is it a braided wire strap or something else?
And if you're looking for someone fiddling about without knowing what they are doing, I'm your man!
sputnik- Centurion
- Posts : 122
Join date : 2014-11-13
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
One of the symptoms I had with the battery wires was all dash lights on, the machine gun click and no start. Machine gun because of the bad wire causing the relays to chatter. No start as one wire supplies power to the ECU. Replaced wires and made new ends, fired up first time. Not sure a slow starter motor would be the wires but sure someone else my know more.
Raggy- Jet Addict
- Posts : 1629
Join date : 2015-05-25
Age : 60
Location : Doncaster
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
Read this you have pretty much same problems, I presume you have done a test on the leccy to see if there is a quiescent drain on the battery with every thing turned off ?
with any radio permanent live feed & clock removed it should be 0.0 amps
https://hijet.forumotion.com/t4219-charging-problem
with any radio permanent live feed & clock removed it should be 0.0 amps
https://hijet.forumotion.com/t4219-charging-problem
verryoldman- Chatterbox
- Posts : 69
Join date : 2014-07-01
Location : UK
Re: Engine to chassis ground strap
That too is on my list of things to do when I can track down my neighbour with the necessary tool and knowledge.
Pretty sure (for starters) that the battery is failing to hold a charge properly in any case so that needs sorting (4 year guarantee runs out in 2 weeks so hope they honour that).
Oddly I took the starter motor off and tried attaching a positive jump lead (from the poorly charged battery) to the long solenoid bolt and negative to the starter body. I'd expected nothing to happen unless I also connected the positive to the small solenoid connector (via alligator clip wire or screwdriver). Instead, the negative crackled a bit and sparked and the motor started spinning slowly (no sign of the, er, cog thing popping out). Now the slowness could be down to the low battery charge but I'm not sure why it spins at all without bridging the positives.
Have I mentioned I don't understand electrics at all?
Pretty sure (for starters) that the battery is failing to hold a charge properly in any case so that needs sorting (4 year guarantee runs out in 2 weeks so hope they honour that).
Oddly I took the starter motor off and tried attaching a positive jump lead (from the poorly charged battery) to the long solenoid bolt and negative to the starter body. I'd expected nothing to happen unless I also connected the positive to the small solenoid connector (via alligator clip wire or screwdriver). Instead, the negative crackled a bit and sparked and the motor started spinning slowly (no sign of the, er, cog thing popping out). Now the slowness could be down to the low battery charge but I'm not sure why it spins at all without bridging the positives.
Have I mentioned I don't understand electrics at all?
sputnik- Centurion
- Posts : 122
Join date : 2014-11-13
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